Interview with Catherine Bernstein

What was the starting point, the main motivation for making these films?
I was born 1964 in France, so 20 years after the war. I have a German, protestant mother, who was raised in Kassel and a French, jewish father, whose family was severely affected by the Holocaust. As a young woman, about 1990, I had the opportunity to work in Dusseldorf for a few months. Whenever I met older people in the street, I would ask them how they experienced the Second World War. Of course, I couldn’t just go up to them and ask. During that period, I saw my German grandmother again after a lengthy family dispute. There I learned that she participates in annual class reunions. So my grandmother, who graduated in 1933, still met her schoolmates in Kassel. It was then that I got the idea to visit precisely those schoolmates to ask them how they experienced the war. I had no preconceived opinion and whatever they would answer me, would interest me. During the shoot of the film I discovered a lot – this school class appeared to be a microcosm of German society then.

Where were you at this point in your own cinematic work?
In the nineties, I was about 30 years old. I was the assistant to movie directors and shot short film movies and commercials in Germany on the side (e.g. for Clausthaler – the expression “nicht immer aber immer öfter” was mine). I knew much about movies but nothing about documentary films. Then a producer suggested I make a documentary about whatever I wanted. And so it came that I suggested to him to travel to Germany and shoot the first film, OMA. Then, the idea for the second film came: about the seven Jewish girls from grandma’s class and eventually about the next generation, my grandma’s class, who were children during the war, since they were all born 1937. After that, the trilogy documentary films enabled me to shoot films for Arte and the French state television, especially historic documentaries about nazism. Among other things, I made a documentary about Operation T4, the Nazi euthanasia program, and also about the public prosecutor Fritz Bauer.

Is there a history of the reception of this trilogy in Kassel / Germany? And if not, why?
These films were made with very little funding – only with the support of a small French television station. Without the help of my aunt Barbara, who still lives in Kassel, I wouldn't have been able to make these films. She accommodated the cameraman and me, and my cousin Claudius made the sound recordings for the first film. Mr. Wegner also gave me access to the film archive that you see in the film Oma. That was also a very valuable help. The French producer didn't approach German television stations at the time. And I don't know whether the form and subject of this documentary would have interested German television then or now. We will never know. Since then, books like “Grandpa wasn't a Nazi” have been published. But back then, grandchildren questioning the memories of contemporary witnesses was not yet common practice. Apart from one-off private screenings with the eyewitnesses and their families, the films had never been shown in Kassel or anywhere else in Germany.

How were the three films received, critically?
When I was lucky enough to shoot the first film, I had no experience with documentaries. So I let myself be guided by my gut feeling; but without ignoring the fact that a film based mainly on interviews and constructed through editing ran the risk of not being very convincing aesthetically.
I was surprised that the film was immediately selected for important festivals in France. The director of one festival told me that she had never seen a documentary in this style before, but that she had received two other similar films from Canada and Russia that very year. Always about school classes. At the first screening, an audience member asked me if I was a far-right person and where my uniform was. Fortunately, the rest of the audience defended me. This film came after the impressive film “Shoah”, in which Claude Lanzmann confronts his interviewees. I had given the floor to former Nazis, among others, and let them speak freely without making my position behind the camera clear. I thought that my staging was sufficiently explicit. Fortunately, such a situation never happened again and the film was not only awarded, but also passed on and shown to combat racism and anti-Semitism.
Then I made SAURE TRAUBEN (THE GREEN GRAPES), which also won an important prize in France, namely the prize of the Society of Documentary Film Directors. Finally, LES ABSENTES (THE ABSENT ONES) was also selected for festivals in France. The trilogy was then released on DVD, which was a rarity for documentaries. This trilogy, with its simple stylistic devices, was quite unusually well received in the small world of documentary film in France. The film about my mother's generation made many older Jewish people want to visit Germany. As if these films would give hope. Writer friends and theater directors seemed to be inspired by them. It's really great that these little documentaries have had such an impact in France. I am therefore delighted that these three films are now finally being shown in Germany, in Kassel, possibly as a kind of restitution.

Were there any conflicts of sorts?
For the first movie, all my grandmother's classmates opened their doors to me. At the screening at my aunt's house, my grandmother only said that the movie was “tendentious”. It turned out that she was right. I regret very much that I had tricked her into making the movie. As a filmmaker, you are constantly dealing with ethical issues. In the first film, I made every effort to give a voice to those who had quietly resisted National Socialism, or to those who were afraid of it. Because the words of those who were close to National Socialism were literally overused. Later, for the film about my mother's class, half of the people refused to take part in the film and made this clear by writing me letters with unusually harsh language. I was in no way trying to tarnish the memory of her parents. I just wanted to show what it was like to grow up after the war. My mother's classmates who were willing to be filmed were those who had dealt with history in one way or another: They had become historians or French teachers or had married Jewish men. Unfortunately, the fact that I made this movie also split the school class in half somewhere. Even though my most personal films are still difficult to make, I have become an accomplished documentary filmmaker. But of all my films, my favorite will forever remain THE GREEN GRAPES. It uses these moving women to show the great challenge of being German in the post-war period: an impossible legacy to bear.